A Perspective on Homophobia
The Colour Pink is an experimental project from the creative justsunday, before we knew justsunday was a magazine. The thought was to tackle the irrelevance of Homophobia and seek to shed light on a certain truth; that is we live in a manner that is of the same balance; from the food we eat, our religion and the inter-connection of our lives.
International Man of Mystery
Shannon: What is one of the best experiences you’ve had in your City? As people visiting the UK we’re expected to go and see tourist attractions like Big Ben and the few others. I prefer
indulging in the lifestyle of a city.
Kazim: Uhm.. for me, I mean the UK is like a place where I live. I don’t spend a lot of time there. What makes the UK so important to me it that my family and friends are there, so I tend to spend as much time as possible with friends and family. However, if I wasn’t including friends and family, London is probably the best place in the world for food. It has the most incredible food spots, man, you can get any cuisine and its 10/10. So I’d say food for sure and I’m, like, obsessed with Indian food so I would probably go for some dishoom (indian dish) with white truffle to eat.
The Thames is free and its like a gift everyday. The Saatchi gallery is free, uhm really good spot. Contemporary art. The level of theatre and film is incredible. Usually I would see family and I’d, just indulge in film, arts and stuff like that. I wouldn’t even go out. To go ‘out-out-out,’ I mean my favourite club is called plastic people. I’m not sure if it closed down last year.
Shannon: As a Muslim/Arab boy, how was it growing up in the UK?
Kazim: Uhm, it’s hard to say because I didn’t know anything different. I can’t really compare it to anything. What I will say is that, uhm, I wouldn’t change anything about the way I grew up. I feel good about it. I grew up in the city so that made sure I was exposed to interesting things, interesting people and interesting ideas. Luckily I had a big family so there were always people around. Some of them much older. I was the youngest in my family, where I was exposed to older people and the older ways of thinking and I think that had a major impact on my learning and exposure to my creativity. My brother was into music and my sister was really into art. Uhm… So you know all of those things made a huge impact.
Shannon: As you are aware (well I hope) South Africa is a third-world country. We are still very rural in our actions and our general way of life – a lot of it we culturally pride ourselves on. However, new money is a problem. Too many people are concerned about being seen – wearing the best things, “swag” has potentially ruined us. In the UK as well as greater Europe it is as clear as day that being who you are is expected. It’s almost a norm. The Freedom of Expression in the UK/Europe can be seen in fashion, street culture, literature and Art. Is this expression a direct result of how people are raised, or are we as South Africa a new culture/society that will eventually grow into this?
Kazim: I think – I am not sure if I completely agree with that – I think what makes, when we talk about style and fashion in that context, I think what makes Johannesburg more exciting than London is that, like, street style is a phenomena in London, and other European countries are dictated to by leading fashion trends. So, in Europe and in the UK we’re very brand driven and that’s often a case of the hottest brands and whoever is wearing the freshest item, who is wearing whats ‘hot-hot-hot’. New Raf Simons or the new whatever, uhm, if you’ve got that product then you are street style cool right?
But all of that is economically driven. You either work in the industry or you have lots of money. The thing that’s exciting about here (Johannesburg, South Africa), is that it seems much more democratic. All the coolest kids on the street are wearing vintage clothing or, like gees, there are no brands here. Obviously there are brands and some money to some extent or demographic, its obvious that some people are invested in brands here, but on a mass level – on the street right now, it feels like people don’t have the money necessarily so they use creativity. The most creative and most stylish naturally are the ones that get to the top and stand out.
You can’t buy style. Its easy to buy stylish items and read it off mags and watch it on tv or whatever and its not easy in Europe to define who is stylish and who isn’t. Whereas here, its like the really stylish kids, whether they have money or not, are just looking their best. They will come out on top. That democracy in Johannesburg is more exciting.
Shannon: Young people start having sex in the UK at a very young age. Why is this not Taboo? Why is sex such a liberal thing?
Kazim: That’s a really interesting question. uhm – and I don’t think I am the best person to answer this – laughs, but from my perspective there is a very-very different culture in the UK. I think the culture here in South Africa is made up of black African cultures yeah? A melting pot of all cultures that are rooted in the stuff that is all traditional and, uhm, you know, a really old culture right? Uhm, and religion plays a role in that and tribalism plays a role in that as well.
Whereas in the UK, those things don’t really exist in the same way. Of course religion exists but there isn’t that same feeling of social tribalism in the same way and there isn’t that, like, richness in old cultures. I think more than anything that the stories that we are given in the UK through the media, whether that’s advertising or through TV and films whatever, are like, highly sexualised and I think that therefore the society is becoming highly sexualised and, like, to add to all of that, the internet is so readily available. Anyone at anytime can get something that they want
In a way that doesn’t really happen here, the internet’s still gota bita work to do in Africa whereas in the UK mate, a 5-year-old has a mobile phone and can go get anything they want on that phone. So I think it is a combination of all those things as a result of a highly sexualised nation.
Shannon: British street culture is very different and unique from any other street cultures I have been exposed to. Is it because people are not following “The American Western Ideal” on what fashion is?
Kazim: Uhm I think the British – London and what makes London unique and stand out is that it’s multi-cultural. Its that cocktail of cultures and that cocktail of colours and people from all over the world, but the rest of the UK is not like that.The UK is ,I think, its 12% black the rest is white. London is the most diverse place in the world for me…
Comment Khanya; sounds like the benchmark of the UK…
Kazim: Yea it is, or it should be.
Comment Khanya; it feels like a through-line around the world. where I come from, the Western Cape, its not as diverse as Johannesburg is. when I went home to Mossel Bay after my first time coming to Jozi I was like, I now know why Jozi is so ahead of the rest of the country. It’s because everyone came looking for work here and because of that you’d meet different cultures from all corners of the country. People had different perspectives, different ideologies and religions. If you’re in Maboneng, you can run into five different people/cultures in 10mins there. And I think that, for me, if you have a lot of different cultures coming together, is very attractive, original and unique.
Shannon: The UK is a confusing place for me. Race is nothing there. People aren’t addressed by their race or colour. Inter-racial dating is okay. Yet it seems like no-one really
understands each other’s culture or backgrounds. It almost seems swept under the carpet and no-one must speak of it. “Like he who must not be named” – you’re British, I had to reference Harry Potter in here.
Kazim: laughs – I think that is true, that’s completely true. Uhm, the reason there is colour and race here is because it is part of people’s conversations, spoken in the vernac and day to day life, it is such a big deal here, and it should be and the history is very recent. Colour and race was a huge factor. And that’s not to say it isn’t in England. But over there, people try harder to assimilate being British instead of being white or black. And that’s because the idea of Britain in some
quarters is one of multiculturalism, uhm, and you know… colourfull-ness and integration. A Positive image.
Shannon: Rules! Why are there so many RULES? You are a first world country. You are supposed to be free. Why are there so many rules i.e. – you can’t eat mute swan. What the fuck is mute swan anyway?
Kazim: What the hell is mute swan? -laughs
Khanya: bruh I don’t know -laughs
Kazim: Why what rules? The rules are for preservation init?
The rules are to protect – if you don’t abide by the rules its
almost a disrespect yea?
Shannon: Yeah i guess. Gangsters are apparently a real thing in the “underground urban areas.” How bad is East London (I think it is East)? We know struggle, hoodness, gangsterism and all the wonder that goes with it, but how bad is it really?
Kazim: I think, uhm, gangsterism – I don’t really know much about. But, like, you know in the city of London or the suburbs are increasingly not really safe places. I can’t compare it. But you know there is a lot of crime, a lot of naughty kids, a lot of violence. It’s not a really safe place, London, at times.
Khanya: I don’t think you can go to any place in the world and be like “I’m 100% safe here.”
Kazim: Yeah exactly. You go to a major city like that, there are all kinds of people, good and bad. Uhm, and also London is a really big city. There are deprived communities. That breeds discontent and dissatisfaction which you know breeds crime.
Shannon: When you come across this poster “Keep Calm and Carry on” Does It upset you?
Kazim: Laughs – Ahhhh it doesn’t upset me but I do think, like, – why? you know… For me it’s a stylistic thing. It doesn’t look nice.
Shannon: Why do people race pigs and donkeys in the UK?
Kazim: Fortunately, I don’t know much about that. Laughs – its
interesting.
The Lazarusman Mathebula
Makhosonke Castro Nkosi
Laz: …I don’t know, she says she wants to throw a party at her house, I should sleep over and I’m like “OK” I said to her, I said “When should I come”. She said “anytime.” So then she says to me, “You can come anytime”. I say “OK I’ll come tomorrow”. She says “No you can’t come on weekdays”. I say “Well then don’t tell me to come over any time!”
Castro: you sound upset
Laz: no I’m not. What you must understand is that I’m very aware of the usage of tone. I use tone or specific words and shit like that to get a particular message across. Sometimes its fairly aggressive but it works. So its not that I’m upset its just that what I’ve come to learn in life is that if you’re soft… People will walk all over you.
Castro: Also, how you command the language is very important.
Laz: it’s important. And with that it needs to be contextual, you need to consider tone, and you need to consider dictionary. Those things are fundamental and profound.
-At this point, a homie walks by asking us if we we’re smoking any of the pleasant herb worldly known as weed or marijuana –
Mr Fix it: Yo you smokin’ weed there?
Laz: No. of course not
Castro: We’re actually working here…
-greetings commence all around – “Fede! Fede is vokol”
Mr Fix it: sorry baf’ethu ngiyaphapha I thought there was some weed
Castro: and we’re recording here so now we’re fucked –laughs
Laz: Nah lets keep it. Don’t stop, keep it rolling.
Mr Fix it: We’re recording? Yes sir!
Khanya: Yo what’s your name?
Mr Fix It: on the streets, they call me Mr Fix it. I fix things
Laz: he’s a dope DJ too…
Mr Fix It: Ok siyabonga siyabonga! Yithi ndiyothenga iNkawuza
Laz: where were we? We’re done talking about tonality. Fuck that shit.
Khanya: I don’t know, from my side I know this has been a long time coming. We hang regulary but why the fuck is it so hard to get a planned sit down with the two of you? Initially how this started was… I ran into you guys in braam…
Castro: We had actually just run into each other at that time
Laz: I’ll explain it just now as soon as these cool kids wearing sandles pass – laughs – I mean, you go to a fuckin’ party in sandles… what the fuck. And it’s got that one strap over the big toe…
Castro: but I do that sometimes though
Laz: yes but you do it in a cool way. You don’t do it to walk around at parties and shit. Putting on sandles and walking around like fucking birds.
Anyway the problem is that he and I know too many people. So we move within circles. We move from one circle to the next. So its basically the infinite loop, and if you look at the figure eight, there’s only one point at which it comes into contact. Its that rare. So Castro’s at the top of the figure eight and I’m at the bottom. Occasionally, when the universe provides, our paths cross.
Castro: yeah, like Friday. Those homies I was with, I went to primary school with them. They had been looking for me the whole day that day and they live in Benoni. They were like “Dude, all your mates are here. How do they get hold of you since you don’t have a phone?” –laughs – I’m like no, I’m just moving…
Laz: It’s that constant movement. We just gravitate towards each other and it makes sense.
Khanya: dude, the fucking idea to have this conversation or interview was actually a stroke of luck because we were going to some meeting that had nothing to do with the magazine. Or maybe it had a little to do with the magazine…
Castro: No it didn’t have anything to do with the magazine.
Khanya: I spent the rest of that day following you around, snapping and when I got to editing I was like, no hold on, wait… there’s a ‘Conversation With Creatives’ in this piece.
Laz: – sees a beautiful woman walk past – Sweet mother of baby Jesus on a Stick! – we all take a moment to appreciate her –
Khanya: On a stick?
Laz: She heard me. She won’t acknowledge that she heard me, but she heard me. Anyway…
Khanya: I’m still back at ‘the stick’
Castro: I think I saw her giggle, just a young giggle
Laz: So here’s the funny thing, I had my first encounter with Castro when I was working at Supremebeing. The 1st store to open up was in Rosebank. So he walked in and I met him and at that point in time I had not met anyone cooler in my life. He looked suave, he looked dope and the thing is, if anyone has met Castro, and for people who’ll continue to meet Castro, they’ll know that he’s assertive and sure of himself.
Castro: I don’t think I’m assertive tho, I’m just content with who I am.
Laz: yeah that’s just the politically correct answer. That’s the answer you give when you’re not trying to be arrogant.
Castro: yeah… well, I was saying, I don’t think I’m assertive, I just know myself very well and I know what I like. I think people have that perception of me because their view of me is from a different vantage point I guess. I’m content. I’m never really unhappy with who I am. I always believe that I have everything that I need in my life right now. All I have is wants right now, not needs. I was telling this guy the other day, he was like “Yo Castro, you want a beer?” I’m like yeah I’d love a beer. He’s like “Do you need anything?” and I’m like, I only have wants, never needs. That’s actually a T-Shirt yeah? “Only Wants, no needs” – laughs – I’m always content. You can take me anywhere as long as I can engage, adapt and adjust, I’m done.
Laz: and he does that every fucking time, this fucking cunt.
Castro: …and hence why I have to disagree with me being assertive because when you’re assertive you cannot enlighten yourself or dumb yourself down to a point where you’ll reach a level of understanding with the next person. I’d rather adapt and adjust – or camouflage into that situation.
Khanya: That’s actually coming correct because in this book I’m reading…
Laz: This is not about you, don’t tell us about your fucking book! – we’re all laughing – We don’t care about your book. That’s not going to come up in the interview. The interview isnt’ going to have a section saying “So I told them about my book.” This nigga wants to tell us about his fuckin’ book, but the interview is about us – laughs –
Khanya: All day. He’s been a dick to me all day – laughing
Laz: ah you and your book can fuck off. Don’t tell me about your fucking book. It’s probably a book we haven’t even read Castro…
Khanya: Wait but I want to pick up on the moving around within circles, being places where you need to be, even though that may not have been where you planned to be. How much has that movement done for you and how much has it cost you?
Laz: I think essentially what it comes down to… Its always about… uhm, its always been about being the ultimate opportunist. And everyone’s an opportunist right? Like a lot of people claim to be opportunists but never cease the opportune moment, you know what I’m saying? And that’s the one thing I think Castro does well. I think I do it well to a certain degree, but he does it like… if it’s the tiniest of cracks, the same hole a cockroach can crawl in, he’ll fucking do it – laughs – seriously man. Like, Castro and I, not to boast or be funny but like, half the time I don’t feel like we deserve to be where we are, doing what we’re doing. I feel like there are people who are ten times more qualified to be where we are, but because we were there, we saw the opportunity and we took it, and that’s been the steez you know what I’m saying? All about moving in those circles.
Castro: I agree with what he’s saying. I love and admire the fact that Laz will always make those educated decisions when at times I can’t. For me, sometimes what I do is more impulsive and that tends to fuck me over a lot, you know? A situation where I don’t see it ending the way I would like it to end, but end up going with it because of instinct and unfortunately my wealth is with my friends, not me.
When my friends have made it, that’s when I’ll know [that I’ve made it]. It’s pointless for me to share my being and presence with you if you’re not getting anything from me while I’m gaining a lot from you. And that’s how we’re able to move within those circles, you can take us anywhere… We could have dinner with the Queen – laughs – and she’d probably be like, yo boys what’s up!
Laz: And there’s a lot of truth to that because if we didn’t take some opportunities, others would not have been given to us and that the thing, because Johannesburg is like that. This for me is the most cut-throat city in the world. If you trip and you fall here, understand that you’re landing on a knife. So you’ve gotta stay up… trip, stumble, regain your balance and keep running. Its not about the necessary, its about the obvious. And Castro and I are unnecessarily obvious – laughs
Castro: that’s another T-Shirt –laughs
Khanya: You know, another thing is, a lot of people talk a lot of shit. Mna, ndili qaba mfe’thu. I just got here, I’m new here and…
Laz: you’re not as new as you think but yeah…
Castro: there’s homies who’ve been here longer than you that are still brand new, you know.
Khanya: yeah, I get that. And a lot of what I’ve been hearing is “Joburg will be good to you, Joburg will be shitty to you” but what I’m picking up from you fellas is that you dance with this bitch and hope that your pick-up line is good too…
Laz: Its true! Your attitude! Yo but Khanya on the real man, look, how people get mugged on the streets is a fundamental basis of how you walk; the attitude you have on the street.
Castro: -laughing- And this is what happened when me and this homie was leaving Poolside, these cats came up and tried to mug him.
Laz: Man, my whole attitude was wrong! I was so comfortable in the city, and the city reminded me. She said “Hey listen Laz… Yo, you getting too comfortable in this bitch” –laughing
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